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Steve Leung
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- RMVB 為何能夠在中港地區發揚光大 之 二。
- 這邊箱 iPhone 4S 已經大量出貨, 那邊箱 iPhone 4 仍然有價有市。
- Nokia "第一部真正的 Windows Phone" Lumia 800 銷情極好！
- PlayStation Vita 香港開始預訂，3DS 十二月遊戲大作蓄勢待發！
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- Chrome 即將支援 Gamepad, 會是 PS 跟 XBOX 的手掣嗎...?
- Google Music vs iCloud, 你選哪一個？
- 阿ed 推介: 地謎藏寶 Geocaching。
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2011年11月27日星期日
亂gad 第75集 2011.11.27 ~ 黑色星期五 Apple 促銷, Nokia Lumia 800, PS Vita / 3DS
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Geocaching 看似有趣，但在下是愛山之人，每每看見香港滿山廢物便覺心痛。希望各位不要推廣這類破壞大自然的活動，須知道一個塑膠扭蛋要多少年才能分解？ 希望閣下到以下網址以便了解義工們的辛苦：
回覆刪除http://zh-tw.facebook.com/pages/%E5%B1%B1%E9%A0%AD%E6%B8%85%E6%BD%94%E9%9A%8A/227311947283927?sk=wall&filter=12
你可以用一個環保的方法玩同一個遊戲，扭蛋不環保，那就放草扎的螳螂好吧？膠樽不環保？那用木盒吧。 遊戲是死的，人是生的，你想點玩就點玩。
回覆刪除Ed
此留言已被作者移除。
回覆刪除你說得當然沒錯，但大前提是你能否保證所有人都可以玩得環保？這類的遊戲不是一般的野外定向。誠如你所說，很多人找到物件後不會把它拿走，反而會放更多物件在同一地方，這些東西可能永遠留在郊野。
回覆刪除節目內扭蛋這名詞出現不下數次，扭蛋用什麼物質製作相信不用我多說，看來你的介紹亦需要“環保”一點.
其實我真的不想冒犯閣下，我只想帶出我們玩遊戲之餘，有很多東西我們需要注意。
這其實沒有什麼冒犯不冒犯, 只要有道理, 我們都樂於聆聽、接納。
回覆刪除但希望 閣下亦不要妄用環保之名, 要知道錯不在遊戲, 而在於人, 正等於 BT (bittorrent) 本身並無問題, 錯只在於人們利用 BT 傳送侵犯版權的資料。
若果說郊野地方垃圾多便要禁止 geocaching, 這未免有點本末倒置, 需知道亂拋垃圾才是元凶, 而絕不會是 geocaching 的寶藏, 節目中提到扭蛋, 目的只在於令大家了解到 geocaching 的寶藏其實沒有任何實質價值, 目的不在於寶藏, 而是去享受找尋的過程。
我明白都市人生活壓力大, 思想難面有點負面, 但從正面去想, geocaching 以年輕人喜愛的方式令他們走出家門口, 接觸現實世界, 在這大家都沉醉在虛擬網絡世界的廿一世紀, geocaching 實在只有百利而無一害。
再說, 閣下看到香港滿山廢物的時候, 又有多少是 geocaching 留下來的寶藏？我相信只佔極少數, 甚至沒有, 本人閒時亦愛擁抱大自然, 到各郊野公園走走, 看到的只是遊人遺留下來的垃圾, 而不是什麼寶藏。
可見 geocaching 對大自然的影響實在可說是微不足道。
若果只因為大部份不守規距亂拋垃圾的人而令此健康活動受壓迫, 實在說不過去, 而環保, 本人一直都是義不容辭, 身邊的朋友們都知道我是出了名的環保份子, 從前的同事們都被我勸說下班關電腦到覺得煩厭, 家中的電器在不用的時候我總要全部關掉才安心, 但宗旨是不極端, 不執著, 必需品不能省, 能做的則盡量做, 中庸之道也。
要說的我已經說完, 希望能為閣下解惑, 千萬不要走極端, 萬事皆有兩面, 要平衡各方利弊才是道。
未知是否系統出現問題致文章未能發佈？現把電郵收到的 cheungie 的回覆重發一下：
回覆刪除===
cheungie 已針對您的文章「亂gad 第75集 2011.11.27 ~ 黑色星期五 Apple 促銷, Nokia Lumia...」留下新意見：
很高興能與你討論，我也認同閣下的論述有一定的道理。我亦認同時下年青人需要走出這網絡世界，到世界看看。
閣下問我看見香港滿山廢物的時候, 又有多少是 geocaching 留下來的寶藏。你可能說得對，我未必看過。但即使我看見那些寶藏，我亦只會以為它們是垃圾，我相信一個普通人亦會有同感。
我認為閣下以BT為例並不合適，因為使用BT存在着合法使用的可能性，但在郊外作Geocaching等活動並不存在合法的可能性，亦不存在着應否禁止的問題。因為根據香港附屬法例第208A章第12條，任何人不得在郊野公園或特別地區內棄置任何廢物、紙張或廢料，但將其棄置在為此而提供的箱或容器內則除外。由此可見，那些寶藏在法律的框架下，根本和垃圾沒有兩樣。若有人在放置寶藏時被發現，他們一樣會馬上收到告票。所以我根本不是極端，是這活動本身就是不合法。
你可能認為小小的一件寶藏沒有什麼關係，畢竟這只是一項小眾活動。但難保有一天這活動會變得受歡迎，那時候怎麼辦？
refernce: http://www.hklii.org/chi/hk/legis/reg/208A/s12.html
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此留言已被作者移除。
回覆刪除謝謝涼粉兄，在下只是發表一下自己的看法。如有得罪，在此致歉。
回覆刪除回上文:
回覆刪除我相信 ed 在之前的留言已表達得相當清楚, 閣下以為 "在郊外作Geocaching等活動並不存在合法的可能性" 是因為對寶藏存有既定幻想, 認為一定是人工的物品所以會污染大自然, 而其實 geocaching 並無限定寶藏是什麼, 如阿ed 所說可以是草扎的螳螂, 你也可以利用小石子堆一個石陣, 該找到寶藏的人拍照留個紀念, 所以根本犯不著任何法律。
不會, 這世界就是要有多一點不同的看法才會進步, 就像我們 亂gad 三位主持有不同看法節目才會好聽 :)
回覆刪除(Have to use English since typing in Chinese will be too slow for me.)
回覆刪除cheungie you have pointed out that littering is a problem and this is true. I did some very simple search after reading everyone's comments and found the following:
1. wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geocaching
The section "ethics" and "controversy and issues" did specifically mentioned that geocaching has been and still is creating problem for government agencies. In particular, mentioning of "suspicious activities", "littering", "worry of terrorism" near/at the geocache site are some of the things they have talked about.
By the way, one of the geocaching item in the wiki page was MTR ticket ;) (surprise!)
2. still from the wiki:
On the ethic section there are 2 reference that actually mentioned how geocached created problems:
Parks setting up guidelines (2007). Geocachers were already required to get permission before placing objects. At that time they are looking at unifying the rules for all different parks.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/26/AR2007092600843_pf.html
Man placing object at some dangerous place (bridge). Authorities thought that was a bomb. Police raided house (2006)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10894835/#.TtODBGPz08k
3. Since it was Ed's topic, I haven't done any research on this subject when we were doing the show (ep 75). But a quick search shows that indeed geocache exists in HK. Some are actually located in urban area (in a shop), but this geocaching does happen in HK.
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?country_id=91&as=1&ex=0&cFilter=9a79e6ce-3344-409c-bbe9-496530baf758&children=n
4. Searching for what HK government's stance on geocaching turns out with nothing, I think. (not like HK government info are easy to search)
My final words:
I support this kind of activities but it has to be both legal and ethical. For parks, I think it is a good idea to get permission before placing any objects. But I have doubts in our park's officials to allow this kind of seemingly "stupid or 無聊" (to them) activities as their excuse would probably be "extra workload". Without government's support, there is definitely no legal ground for this activity to exist in HK.
Thank you Patrick for conducting such a thorough research. I am normally a "CD-ROM" when it comes to sharing my views on the internet. However, this is my very first time in having such a meaningful discussion on the web. Thank you all for giving me this opportunity.
回覆刪除I have already pointed out that activities such as geocaching cannot be legal, at least in the current HK legal framework.
However, I am actually more concerned with the "ethical" aspect of the activity. If a cacher places organic substances as treasures which can be easily decomposed, this is all fine and good. But is there really any way to ensure all cachers will behave in such a responsible manner? Patrick has pointed out that some cacher had placed MTR tickets as treasure, I have also looked at the Geocacher website and found out that some people had placed plastic containers such as bottles on the mountains in Hong Kong. Who is responsible for monitoring them? What if one day everyone has lost interested in these items I have just mentioned? They will all be left on the mountains for God knows how long.
Even with the government's cooperation in regulating this activity, I just cannot see the regulations can be executed properly. Even though I maybe seen as EXTREME for having such thoughts, but I feel we are putting too much reliance on cachers to act in good faith. These are the reasons why I do not support this activity.
Hopefully this will be my last entry on this matter. Thank you all.
Just want to point out another usage that I have seen, which is marketing. I have heard store putting store coupons in a mug on a tree right in front of the store. I think that usage would be ethnical.
回覆刪除ed